MINUTES OF AN ORDINARY MEETING OF THE ASSOCIATION OF NORTH-WESTERN CAR CLUBS HELD AT THE HOLIDAY INN, RUNCORN ON TUESDAY 10th AUGUST 2004

WELCOME

The Chairman, Bob Milloy, welcomed delegates to the meeting.

ATTENDANCE

18 member clubs were represented by 27 delegates as follows:

APOLOGIES

Apologies for absence were recorded from Kay Skellern (General Secretary), Gordon Pirie (RLO Cheshire & Merseyside), Mike Farnworth (Training Officer), Jack Romain (RLO North Wales), Tom Dooley (British Racing & Sports CC NW), John Francis (Dayz of Funder MC), David Bailey (Lancashire & Cheshire CC) & Martin Blackburn (Manx Motor Sport Marshals Association).

MINUTES

Minutes of the last meeting were accepted on a proposal by Eric Cowcill, seconded by Bill Turner.

MATTERS ARISING

Exemption for Stage Rally drivers licences – was now on the agenda for the MSA Rallies Committee on 22 July (see report below).

Landowners Awareness – unfortunately the planned day was not going to happen at this time. The venue (Snape Farm, near Crewe) had looked good, and plenty of information was available from Bernard Baker of AEMC who had run such an event. No date had been settled and liaison between interested organizers had not materialized. Hopefully the idea can be resurrected at a suitable time and place in the future. Steve Johnson highlighted the fact that agricultural shows were often short of trained stewards and fire marshals. It may be possible for motorsport to provide such officials in exchange for using the show for demonstration runs (e.g. autotests) and to build up relationships with landowners. Such partnerships should be considered by all clubs for next year and the future.

Noisy motor-cycles – this issue had been raised at MSA Regional, and more background information has been requested. Martin Pratt to be contacted as he raised the matter originally. Eric Cowcill stated that the ACU had now woken up to the fact that noise is a problem, and that four venues had been lost, due to noise, this year – the ACU were genuinely concerned as noise is limiting their sport and action must be taken to ensure no further loss. Peter Riley stated that Peter Hillerby of Auto 66 Club in the North-East was also taking up the issue with the ACU ref Elvington. Bob Milloy stated that is the MSA Steward at Elvington next weekend (14 August) and would make notes.

Regulations on the web – The matter was being looked at by the MSA, and it was deemed that electronic entries would be treated in the same way as faxed entries.

LARA and the restricted use of “white” roads – the proposals had met with a record response, over 16,000 letters being received against the proposed Bill. The proposals have therefore been scrapped but beware, they may come back in another form. Bill Trougher, Chairman MSA Regional Committee, had expressed great pleasure in the response and the result.

MSA Marshals Register FAQ sheet – ADL had sent details of the upgrading and FAQs – this information would be included in the next issue of Motorsports Now! as well as on the MSA website.

MSA website – the “members only” part of the website was now working, and clubs are encouraged to register and use the site to download permit applications and to update the calendar.

Inter-Association events – ANWCC had finished second on the IA Production Car Trials event. The IA Stage Rally would be run in conjunction with the Knutsford & DMC Plains Rally and ANWCC would be entering teams. Roger Reed of the Off-Road Committee had stated that the IA RTV Trial will happen, although no details were available. The IA Road/Navigational Rally will be held on 12 November 2004 in Northern Ireland, hosted by ANICC. The IA Autotest had been cancelled.

London Marathon – John Francis had completed the Marathon wearing a suit of armour (!). The run from John O’Groats to Land’s End (the JOGLE) had been completed in the “Citroën 2CV” and raised over £1,000, having included visits to race circuits. Last Friday had seen the Charity Day at Three sisters which had a very good turnout of marshals and raised £2,000. Steve Johnson had treated customers to “hot laps” in the Formula 1000 Nissan Micra, whilst Jim Spencer’s BRCA stand had proven popular. John stated that the event had grown too big for him to organize alone and so was seeking clubs to run the event. John was complimented on his stupendous charity fund-raising efforts.

MSA MATTERS

COUNCIL NEWS

Eric Cowcill reported that new regulations are being put forward regarding Course Cars on all events – there was concern over passengers being given “jolly” rides, with them not being signed-on and including juniors – this raised insurance questions, and such activities would not receive any MSA support.

Colin Valentine of Ilkley & DMC had raised the subject of Standard Production Autotests and PCT’s, and this was being investigated. (Colin is the person responsible for the introduction of Class 0 in PCT’s some years ago, despite opposition at that time!). Steve Johnson stated that Standard classes in Autotests would be very welcome. Eric Cowcill stated that the minimum wheelbase for Autotests would be reduced to accommodate SMART and certain other “micro” cars that are now available.

Next meeting of MSA Council scheduled for 9 September 2004.

MSA REGIONAL COMMITTEE

Bob Milloy reported on the last meeting, attended by Graham Stoker, MSA Council Chairman. Graham stated that he was trying to bridge the gap between “them” and us! All Council Members were to supply a c.v. to tell the world who they are and what they have done.

Colin Hilton reported on the structure of motor sport.

There was no MSA remit on the ACU noise levels, but concerns had been passed on (see also “Matters Arising” above).

Wales Rally GB – a financial incentive was put forward for clubs who supply teams of marshals, with the final decision as to how this would be distributed not yet decided. Sue Sanders-Peppitt stated that this was to try and involve clubs as clubs and the distribution would probably be by way of £250 to eight clubs decided by lottery.

Discussion had ensued about the “D” plates (Disabled competitors) – where they should be situated, colours?

MSA RALLIES COMMITTEE

Sue Sanders-Peppit reported on the meeting held 22 July.

The revised ruling regarding the use of SOS/OK boards had been in operation since 1 July. Size, lettering and colours had been identified as A4, 12cm high, 1.75cm stroke width, black on white. Where it should be displayed also noted. Crews affected by such an incident may receive a notional time at the Clerk-of-the-Course discretion.

From 1 January 2005 it is advised that Safety Harness be FIA homologated – this regulation to become mandatory from 1 January 2006.

From 1 January 2005 the duties of the Chief Scrutineer will be changed. The Chief Scrutineer for Road events must be on the MSA Technical Officials list. This revises K13.7.

Marshals register is ongoing, and available to organizers.

Agreement has been reached between the MSA and Forestry Commission regarding the use of Forest land. Early planning with regards to Health & Safety is a must – Forest Enterprise had originally requested details of how many marshals at each point, but this was deemed inappropriate and did not allow for flexibility. Compromise was reached by agreeing a minimum number of marshals per event.

Discussion was invited regarding Course Cars – registered list, drivers to have MSA Competition Licence. Thoughts and suggestions should be directed through Sue.

Concern over the lack of website updates was noted, and this was being addressed by the MSA.

The use of non-pump fuel was discussed.

Discussion on BARS upgrading courses, and also courses for co-drivers. Some felt that such instruction should first be done through clubs.

Concern over the size and position of registration plates on some competing cars – some are too small and incorrectly positioned, therefore illegal. Scrutineers should monitor and ensure competitors comply.

The suggestion made by Steve Johnson (September 2003) regarding an exemption of K2.3.4.4 for licence exemption by achieving other driving experience had received a short discussion but claimed that not enough information available. Steve, Bob and Sue to submit further information for MSA Rallies Committee.

Concern expressed over the BARS inconsistent standards, and checks should be more frequent and stringent.

MSA SPEED COMMITTEE

Peter Riley reported on the meeting held 22 June.

Clarification of previous rules had been made.

Concern over the height of rear spoilers, especially in Mod Sports classes. It was stated that the new BMW MINI Cooper S rear spoiler is illegal as it is too high! L12.4.10 is to be revised to add “unless original equipment or specified option”.

L15.1.2 is to be revised as the maximum height of racing car is incorrect.

Towing eyes to be identified.

Revised wording of L49.1(g) to accommodate centrally-seated sports cars.

Regulations L14.1(c) and L14.2.5 to be removed.

Regulation E12.16.6 to be revised to add Drag Racing.

Group B list of cars to be held by the MSA – ref L.14.1(d).

Discussion on two-day events which feature practice on Saturday and the event on Sunday, as to the situation if weather changes between the two days.

Discussion on the engine c.c. rating for diesel cars – paper awaited from Techincal Advisory Panel – some clubs run a diesel class and use a formula of (actual c.c. – 40% +70% for diesel cars). Requested that ANWCC consider including a diesel class in the Sprint and Hillclimb Championships.

MSA TIME-KEEPING COMMITTEE

Eric Cowcill reported that the proposal for a rule on measuring struts on speed events had been thrown out - tolerance too tight!

Rally Recovery Units were being discussed by the Safety Panel.

There was a move to amalgamate Race and Rally Rescue requirements.

The last day for proposals for the 2005 MSA Year Book is 7 September 2004.

CORRESPONDENCE

Application for membership received from Ripon Motor Sports Club approved.

Flyer from the Autotest Drivers Club (NI) Ltd regarding the Inter-Association Autotest planned for 7 August 2004. This event had subsequently been cancelled due to a lack of entries.

Information regarding the 2nd International Historic Motorsport Show to be held at Stoneleigh Park, Coventry on 25th to 27th February 2005.

Information regarding Third Party Road Insurance for rallies in the UK from Competition Car Insurance.

REPORTS

GENERAL SECRETARY

Kay Skellern was absent on Maternity leave, but all items she had passed on are included elsewhere in these minutes.

TREASURER

Eric Cowcill reported that subscriptions were now due for 2005, and invoices would be sent to clubs in the near future.

Invoice regarding the Rhyl Training Day had been paid, and reimbursement received from the MSA. One participant had returned the cheque as he did not wish to claim.

Subscription to the North-West Sports Federation had been paid.

CHAMPIONSHIPS SECRETARY

Registrations for the year were well up on 2004 thanks partly, but not entirely, due to the inclusion of Formula 1000 competitors.

2005 would see more events than previous years and results were coming in at a steady rate, allowing the website to be kept up-to-date and still achieving well over 100 hits per day!

Registration forms for clubs to register events for 2005 would be going out shortly, and would be available on the website.

No changes to the championships for 2005 had been proposed.

FORESTRY LIAISON OFFICER

Following Martin Pratt’s retirement, Kevin Witton has been appointed FLO for the Cheshire/Staffordshire area. Kevin is an official of the Wolverhampton & South Staffordshire CC and very involved with the Bulldog Rally. His address is 25 Harper Avenue, Wednesfield, Wolverhampton, WV11 1HF. (01902 736506) e-Mail kevin.witton@wsscc.freeserve.co.uk

AINTREE LIAISON OFFICER

Mike Ashcroft stated that no meetings had been held since our last meeting. Dates for 2005 are still to be agreed.

£30M development plan had now received planning permission for new stands, with one stand to be erected on part of the old Grand Prix track.

Four events have been held this year without problem.

Flyers were available to publicise the Golden Anniversary of the Aintree Grand Prix Circuit on 19th to 21st November, and a lot of help is requested. Club displays would be available – contact Mike. It is 20 years since the full circuit has last been used (RAC Rally 1984). There would be various functions – details on the website www.afms.info

In answer to a question about insurance it was stated that the BRMC marshals would be covered for the event.

OTHER VENUE LIAISON

Weeton – Mark Wilkinson stated that one of the roads had been lost due to electrics switched off for the weekend of Stockport MC’s event not being switched on again on the Monday. Funding for new roads needed to include the removal of asbestos.

PRESS OFFICER

Nothing to report, but Katy Mashiter is available to advise clubs on media matters.

TRAINING OFFICER

ids for Training Days 2005 should be submitted no later than 1 September 2004.

Planned Rally Training dates for 2005 are Myerscough (22 January), York (23 January), Pontiland (29 January), Penkridge (5 February), Wilshire College (12 February) and Bicester (12 March).

RALLY LIAISON OFFICER

Newly-appointed Gordon Pirie was unable to attend but was available to any clubs wishing to organize events in Cheshire or Merseyside.

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

Drawer for the Marshals prizes for the last three months was made, the winners being Mark Carter (Warrington & DMC), Chris Pedley Jnr (High Moor) and Steve Johnson (CSMA).

Peter Riley produced a letter from Wigton MC, to the Secretary of Longton & DMC, stating that both clubs had a Speed Championship with the same title, and this was causing confusion amongst competitors. It was noted that the MSA had approved both series, and the best course of action may be for the championships to be entitled “Longton Northern Speed Championship” and “Wigton Northern Speed Championship”. The Chairman agreed to contact both clubs.

Jim Spencer reported that the “Awards for All” scheme was receptive to Motor Sport – see www.awardsforall.org.uk – with funding of between £500 and £5,000 for community based schemes.

John Harden enquired if anyone knew of a source for second-hand Armco barriers. It was stated that there was no such thing as “old” Armco removed from roads is scrapped in a controlled manner – the thinking being that it is no longer suitable for the intended purpose.

It was noted from the minutes of the Welsh Association of Motor Clubs that Secretary D Williams had written to the MSA regarding the re-allocation of North Walian maps from ANWCC to WAMC. The MSA had replied stating that the maps had been allocated to ANWCC in 1979. It was further stated that “ANWCC are, however, willing to share maps” although it is not clear who made that statement. Dave Thomas had e-Mailed Kath Barber, Secretary of the WAMC, outlining his personal feelings on the matter and stating that the situation was arising due to the disagreement of road rally rules for Map 116 that were raised, and since implemented by the RLO for North Wales. Jim Jones stated that this was not the case. No reply had been received from WAMC.

DATE AND PLACE OF NEXT MEETING

The meeting closed at 2216 hours, representatives being thanked for their attendance.

AGENDA ...

... for the Ordinary Meeting of the Association of North-Western Car Clubs, which will be held at Holiday Inn Runcorn, on Tuesday 9th November 2004, commencing at 2000 hours prompt



p.p. Kay Skellern
General Secretary - Association of North-Western Car Clubs
17 Johnson Close, Henshall Hall, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 3TQ