MINUTES OF AN ORDINARY MEETING OF THE ASSOCIATION OF NORTH-WESTERN CAR CLUBS HELD AT THE HOLIDAY INN, RUNCORN ON TUESDAY 11th MAY 2004

WELCOME

The Chairman, Bob Milloy, welcomed delegates to the meeting, and also welcomed our President Allan Dean-Lewis MSA who was representing the MSA. The President was invited to present a memento “retirement” trophy to Martin Pratt for his long service to the Association as CTRLO and other duties.

ATTENDANCE

21 member clubs were represented by 24 delegates as follows:

APOLOGIES

Apologies for absence were recorded from Kay Skellern (General Secretary), Gordon Pirie (RLO Cheshire & Merseyside), Jack Romain (RLO North Wales), Katy Mashiter (Press & Publicity Officer), Tom Dooley (British Racing & Sports CC NW), John Francis (Dayz of Funder MC), Steve Kenyon (Garstang & Preston MC), David Bailey (Lancashire & Cheshire CC), Ron Hunt (Liverpool MC), Martin Blackburn (Manx Motor Sport Marshals Association), Ian Webster (Mid-Cheshire Motor-Racing Club), Sue Sanders-Peppitt (Potteries & Newcastle MC), Richard Pearl (Wallasey MC / Motor Sport NW), Richard Duddell (Westfield Sports CC), Helen Fox (Wigan & DMC), Martin Fox (Wigan & DMC), Graeme Forrester (Wigton MC)

MINUTES

Minutes of the last meeting were accepted on a proposal by Steve Johnson, seconded by Eric Cowcill, following the amendment of the dates 2005 to 2004 in certain items.

MATTERS ARISING

Exemption for Stage Rally drivers licences – the suggestion previously proposed by Steve Johnson had not gone forward to Rallies Committee from Regional for reasons unknown. The Chairman stated that he would pick up on this at the next Regional meeting.

Landowners Awareness – Martin Pratt referred to the successful event held by Bernard Baker in the East Midlands area. Knutsford & District MC, through Nigel Banks, had offered to investigate the feasibility of running such an event and have a suitable venue (Snape Farm, near Crewe) in mind. KDMC would provide the infrastructure, but the day had to be organized to the advantage of all clubs through the Association. It was thought prudent to invite other regions and landowners. Discussion ensued as to how to carry this forward – with a short timescale as the tenancy on the farm could end in September 2004. A week date in August was thought favourite, being aware of clashes with local farmers markets, as the event was aimed at landowners. A sub-committee would need to organize the event, and interest ascertained amongst member clubs. The day would include a dispolay of motorsport activities – static that could be held on farmland but also with a possible trials and autotest section included. The event would be open to all interested parties. The last event of this nature was held at Oulton Park but that was aimed at motor sport enthusiasts, this is different! It was felt that the MSA should be represented, possibly with a Junior RTV vehicle, also a LARA representative and possibly the ACU. A suitable date was to be established. Bill Turner offered to provide details of council members of the Cheshire Agricultural Society, who could provide invaluable input. The ANWCC Secretary was to be asked for assistance in administering the event.

Noisy motor-cycles – the views of members of Longton & DMC had been put forward to the MSA and ACU. Ian Price and Martin Pratt had raised the issue separately, but found that the ACU philosophy was for everyone to get a run, and adjust the maximum permitted noise level as appropriate due to the meter, weather, etc – the 105dBA maximum was sometimes raised to 111dBA depending on conditions and motor-cycles used. A problem is how to change the ACU philosophy, as they are a stand-alone body. Oulton Park test day showed that all bikes were over the limit, totally disregarding the local residents, A letter from Kevin Tubby of the ACU inferred that the ACU was not aware of any problems, and requested more information. Mot all bike events were ACU controlled, which complicates the issue. It was felt that the ACU was fast losing control of motor-cycle sport. Three Sisters Circuit was strict about car noise, but not motor-cycles as it brings in the punters. The issue was to be raised at the MSA Regional Committee to ascertain if the problem is the same in other areas.

The position of FLO for our area, following Martin Pratt’s retirement, had not been filled and Allan Dean-Lewis promised to find out from the MSA, who appoint the person.

There were problems with event regulations being available only by internet. The MSA Judicial Committee was to discuss electronic mail.

LARA had sent a letter to the Rural Affairs Minister regarding the restricted use of “white” roads. There would likely be an update at the next Regional Committee meeting and Bob Milloy would report back. Allan Dean-Lewis reported that the government had been embarrassed by the huge number of letters objecting to the proposal that had been received. Nigel Banks reported that at the ANCC meeting it was stated the proposal was likely to be shelved. The farming community was also against the proposals.

MSA MATTERS

Allan Dean-Lewis started by giving some statistics relating to the National Marshals Register, stating that there was now a total of 10,449 licences issued, which represented 9,110 individuals – 4,130 race and 6.319 rally. The rally marshals comprised 797 Grade 1, 2,225 Grade 2 and 3,297 Grade 3. Race marshal numbers are dropping, and changes to the upgrading system were being proposed for all categories. The Licencing Department had a full in tray until this morning. Marshals licences are now valid for two years, with race and rally categories alternating to relieve the workload. Suggestions for licences (including competitors) to be valid for twelve months had been discounted as the regulations (Year Book) ran for each calendar year. Bill Turner questioned the fact that licences were not checked on renewal, and was advised that this was addressed in the FAQ sheet. Bob Milloy stated that communications with marshals was now easier thanks to the issue of The Marshal. Mike Farnworth stated that better training session attendance was possible by e-mail and post code information from the database. Neville Astbury asked about ‘grandfather rights’ and was advised that this has now expired, but club endorsement of an application can give a new applicant Grade 3 (having marshalled three events) or Grade 2 (6 events plus training evening) status. Upgrading from Grade 2 to Grade 1 was pending a new training programme. The Clerk-of-the-Course was a separate licencing system but the person can have a separate Rally Marshal licence.

A FAQ sheet regarding the Marshals Register would be published on the website www.msauk.org in the near future, to answer the various regular questions asked.

The Alexander Forbes MSA Club of Year award had seen ANWCC members Knutsford & District Motor Club keep up their excellent record in the competition with another second place. It was now approaching time to judge for the 2004 award. Also coming up for assessment is the MSA Marshal of the Year. Nominations should be submitted by September 2004.

Money from the Club Development Fund had been used to assist clubs in buying the new 81MHz radios last year. Money was still available for radios, and submissions could be made for these and other requirements.

The latest club bulletin was at the printers and due for publication soon. Additional funding from the Training Trust had been obtained for club Rally Marshals Training evening, with a payment of £50 available for room hire for such sessions.

The DTI initiative saw £16M being invested to benefit motorsport – possible benefit for Marshals training – the money has not been received yet! An MSA working group is to look at realistic initiatives which meet the government objectives. Cautious optimism is the current thoughts regarding the scheme!

On the MSA website the club entry cannot be changed, but another website is being developed for members. Forms and other information will be on there which for member clubs, and not on general website – bear with us!

The MSA monthly feature in Motorsport News will feature a different club each month – clubs are invited to submit a short article of maximum 250 words for consideration.

Get Into Motorsport leaflets are now available free for clubs to promote motorsport.

The subject of “Juniors” has proven to be a can of worms, the MSA are talking to both the NSPCC and CPA. The Association of Northern Ireland Car Clubs (ANICC) has done a lot of work. It is important that full investigations into the involvement of Juniors are completed, and the estimated time is 15-18 months. Steve Johnson stated that he has information on Knowsley Council NSPCC accredited personnel, but Allan said we should wait for the outcome of the MSA discussions.

A management meeting of the Wales Rally GB had been impressed with the level of marshalling training, and encouraged clubs to provide marshalling teams for the event. Nigel Banks stated that marshals were reluctant to turn out for the event due to the long time on duty for so few competitors. Bill Turner stated that many were not happy with not being allowed free access passes for days when they are not on duty. Martin Pratt stated that a major problem with the event was no appreciation afterwards. Eric Cowcill stated that radio crews for the Rally GB would be part of the planning and included in the event Safety Plan, with names and callsigns. “Ad hoc” turning up would negate the plan. Bob Milloy stated that at the Myerscough Training session it was felt that feedback to marshals on the Rally GB was very poor, and Sue Sanders-Peppitt was to pick up this issue.

Officials seminars and training had proved very successful earlier in the year, with 80% of the attendees having signed up via the website or by e-mail contact. Association and club training sessions were going well.

Allan stated that he had recently been appointed Chairman of the FIA Safety Working Group, and had attended a meeting in Barcelona the previous week to launch the FIA Marshals video. This was a multi-national meeting with all delegates wanting to move forward in marshalling. Delegates would be visiting China later in the year!

COUNCIL NEWS

The next meeting was due in about three weeks time.

MSA REGIONAL COMMITTEE

No meetings recently.

MSA RALLIES COMMITTEE

Two meetings had been held recently, 4th March 2004 and 6th May 2004.

Concern was expressed over non-forest stage events using forestry roads – and organizers are to liaise with the local FLO a minimum of three months before the event. This to become a rule from 1st January 2005.

Clarification regarding the Trophy Rally structure was to be made, and details would be issued soon. This would include a Practice or Training Rally. To be implemented 1st January 2005.

Regulations K8.1.3 and 13.5.3 regarding under 16 year olds in an open car were to be deleted.

Further information available regarding the Enduro Road Rally and Ford RST Academy.

Passing a BARS advanced course would qualify as a signature for licence upgrading, and BARS courses for Co-Drivers were being made available.

Road rally lightning was discussed.

The agenda for the May meeting included a Service Area Risk Assessment paper by John Richardson.

A revised list of MSA licences Rally Recovery Units was being compiled.

Other items included the Safety Car requirements on the Wales Rally GB, how to calculate the maximum rpm for cars when testing noise levels (initiated by Gareth Williams) and navigational rallies in Scotland.

MSA SPEED COMMITTEE

THe last meeting had been held on12th February 2004 where ambiguous wording in the MSA Year Book regarding Production Cars was clarified.

The Technical Advisory Panel were looking into regulation E1.29(5) regarding tyre performance and the use of runflat mousse. Further discussion was to take place to possibly permit only air or nitrogen filled tyres. Eric Cowcill stated that mousse degrades and has been known to cause accidents.

Other new regulations approved included red rear warning light specifications, reinforced rollcages, prototype car designs, body covering 2/3rds of the rear tyre – OK as long as the tyre is showing.

The British Motor Sports Marshals Club (BMSMC) had requested that towing eyes be fitted to both front and rear of cars, and discussion was ongoing.

There was controversy over the Force car, a sports car with central seat and it was suggested this should be in the Sports Libre class rather than sports car classes.

CORRESPONDENCE

Information from Bury AC regarding their Torque-BAC Stages Rally, being held on the 26th/27th June 2004, the same weekend as Warrington & DMC’s ANWCC Championship qualifier Enville Stages.

Minutes from the Welsh Association of Motor Clubs (WAMC), Association of Northern Car Clubs (ANCC) and Association of South-Eastern Motor Clubs (ASEMC).

Details of rally plates, medals and suchlike from Southern United Ltd., The Coachhouse, South Street, Portslade, East Sussex, BN41 2LW. Tel 01273 418636, website www.sunited.co.uk

REPORTS

GENERAL SECRETARY

Kay Skellern was absent on Maternity leave, but all items she had passed on are included elsewhere in these minutes.

TREASURER

Eric Cowcill reported that the cheque in reimbursement of expenses for the Training Day had been received from the MSA, which was the same day as the cheque was drawn on our account to settle the payments due to Myerscough!

A fee of £612 in respect of the Rhyl Training session was being covered by ANWCC until the MSA refund is received.

Early renewal of membership of the North West Federation for Sport was sought by that organization as they had lost the national sports funding.

Three clubs have been deleted from our membership list due to non-payment of subscriptions for 2004, these being Aberystwyth & District MC, Severn Valley MC and the Three Shires MC. It is believed that the latter two clubs no longer exist.

CHAMPIONSHIPS SECRETARY

The number of championship registrations was well ahead of the 2003 total, even discounting the inclusion of the Formula 1000 competitors who had to be included due to MSA restrictions on a new championship, which was proving very popular and competitive. Event results were being received quickly and the championship charts kept up to date on the website, with the hit rate well over 100 per day.

Forms to register events for 2005 would be sent out with the next minutes.

TThe monthly marshals draw was held, with the winners being Stephen Mather, Paul Cross and Danni Mycock. They would receive fluorescent yellow fleece jackets kindly obtained by Jim Spencer of BRCA from ERF, and thanks were expressed to Jim for this.

INTER-ASSOCIATION EVENTS

The Inter-Association PCT would be held on 6th June with Kidderminster MCC hosting the event, their Wyre Forest PCT taking place near Stourbridge. (This event is an ANWCC qualifying round).

It had been proposed that the Inter-Association Stage Rally revert to the old system of using a BTRDA qualifying round, and Knutsford & DMC’s Plains Rally had been put forward. The date is 22nd September and the event will be based at Welshpool. (This event is an ANWCC qualifying round).

FORESTRY LIAISON OFFICER

No FLO at present.

AINTREE LIAISON OFFICER

Mike Ashcroft reported on a meeting held 15th April. The tack was breaking up and Aintree Circuit were to repair.

Dates for 2004 had been agreed, with dates for 2005 to be negotiated. Generally there was a “no” to rallying but Aintree will consider ay application on its own merits. Clubs wishing to apply should submit their application early so that dates can be agreed by the end of June 2004. Costs had not been given, and it was down to individual clubs to discuss.

Motor-cycle events had seen good attendances.

A recent news item had revealed a £30M development plan at Aintree.

The 50th Anniversary of the opening date of the Grand Prix circuit is on 29th May 2004 – a track day being held on the anniversary date. An anniversary event would be held from 19th to 21st November 2004, during a horse-racing week, with many stars of motor-racing present.

OTHER VENUE LIAISON

Martin Pratt stated that RAF Llanbedr (near Harlech) was being decommissioned and could be possible new venue for motor sport.

Weeton was now operating well for rallies, with a maintenance fund in place.

A potential new venue near Denbigh has been put on hold due to protests from locals over a motor-cycle scramble held there. This was to be a court matter later in the year, and the outcome of that depended on any future motor sport developments there.

PRESS OFFICER

Nothing to report, but Katy Mashiter is available to advise clubs on media matters.

TRAINING OFFICER

Mike Farnworth restated that money was available from the MSA. Nigel Banks suggested mid-year marshals training, and Mike Farnworth stated that this was being contemplated, as he would be in discussion with Myerscough College the following week.

Mike is working with Allan Dean-Lewis to get rally training information out and a big announcement could be expected shortly.

RALLY LIAISON OFFICER

Newly-appointed Gordon Pirie was unable to attend but was available to any clubs wishing to organize events in Cheshire or Merseyside.

Jack Romain, RLO North Wales, was pleased with the events organized in his patch and the implementation of “the 116 rules” across the whole of North Wales was proving effective and had now been accepted by competitors and organizers alike.

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

SJohn Francis of Dayz of Funder MC would be contesting the London Marathon again, and also had plans to drive THE Citroën 2CV From John O’Groats to Lands End (the JOGLE). The Charity Day would be held at Three Sisters on Friday 6th August and clubs were requested to assist. Ginetta Owners Club would again be involved with track rides.

Mike Farnworth stated that he attended a session with 22 engineering course students at Derby University and was surprised to find that none knew how to get involved as a motorsport marshal or competitor.

Bill Turner stated that, after a successful 50th anniversary held in 1997, Wallasey Motor Club would be celebrating its 75th anniversary in 2004. Newly appointed Chairman Richie Pearl had unearthed previously unknown information that revealed the club was 18 years older than first thought. There would be a function at the Leasowe Castle on 30th November 2004.

Eric Cowcill reported that John Symes of the MSA was concerned over the driving standards of course cars. Such vehicles must not be used for hospitality or demonstration rides, and certain standards could negate insurance cover.

DATE AND PLACE OF NEXT MEETING

The meeting closed at 2225 hours, representatives being thanked for their attendance.

AGENDA ...

... for the Ordinary Meeting of the Association of North-Western Car Clubs, which will be held at Holiday Inn Runcorn, on Tuesday 10th August 2004, commencing at 2000 hours prompt



p.p. Kay Skellern
General Secretary - Association of North-Western Car Clubs
17 Johnson Close, Henshall Hall, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 3TQ